Monday, December 1, 2008


The cries of baby Moshe Holtzberg, all of 2 years, wrenched hearts at the synagogue, calling for "Ima Ima" - hebrew for Mommy, Mommy.

Moshe's father, Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg, 29, and mother, Rivka, 28, ran the headquarters of the ultra-Orthodox Chabad Lubavitch movement in Mumbai. They were among six Israeli citizens killed at the center during the city's three-day terror siege.

Moshe was spirited out of Chabad House on Thursday by Sandra Samuel, a nanny who had worked at the center for years. She found him crying beside his parents' bodies, his pants drenched in blood.

When terrorists seized Chabad House, Samuel locked herself in a laundry room, then she heard Moshe's mother screaming "Sandra, help!" Then the screaming stopped, and it was quiet, Katz said. She cracked open the door of her hiding place and saw a deserted staircase. She ran up one flight and found the rabbi and his wife, covered in blood and shot to death. She snatched up the crying boy, bolted down the stairs and ran out of the building.

Mumbai doctors who examined the bodies of the victims of the Muslim terror massacre said the victims were tortured before being slaughtered.

He said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks".

"It was clear that they were killed on Wednesday (first night itself). It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.

Another doctor commented, "It was very strange. I have seen so many dead bodies in my life, and was yet traumatized. A bomb blast victim's body might have been torn apart and could be a very disturbing sight. But the bodies of the victims in this attack bore such signs about the kind of violence of urban warfare that I am still unable to put my thoughts to words," he said.

They were so brutally tortured that no one is willing to come on camera to even state the scope - such are the horrifying details. The Rabbi and his wife posed no threats to Kashmir or to the Islamic fundamentalists - hence why this heinous crime? This is part of the jehadi training that imparts zero tolerance towards Jews - part of ISI - Al Qaeda training that the world has woken up to.

I propose to the Indian Government: Israel is our friend. Jews have never been persecuted in India down the ages. Their very existence is at threat in Israel with what Iran and others wanting to wipe it off the face of earth. It is, after all, a tiny nation - strong and armed to teeth, but tiny.

Please give Israel land - a few uninhabited islands in the Indian Ocean - on a 999 year lease. Away from Tsunami prone zone, where at least 50,000 Jews can make a life. It will be their land, under their laws, for their future. Yes, global warming and rising sea levels etc pose a threat - but like Holland they too can make a life there. It is beyond the scope of this current "soft" government to think about this. If Burma can lease out Coco islands to the Chinese, what is stopping giving away our "uninhabited islands" for a good use. Is the BJP listening?

To my Israeli friends:

אני מצטער על ההפסד. אני כאשר היה בן 7, אמרתי להורים שלי אני אוהב ישראל. ו עד היום, זו
אהבה יש רק גדל. אני מוכן לבקר בישראל יום אחד בקרוב. אנא קבל את תנחומים.


Anonymous said...

Israel is our best friend. They gave us arms on time during the Kargil war ... and are giving some really hi-tech toys.... yes, we should given Israel some land. Jai Hind !!!!!!

Anonymous said...

We are with you Israel. Shalom. Hindus and Jews are friends forever

Anonymous said...

shalom. islam is a global pandamic that has to be irradicated

Anonymous said...

Avid Historian

Once Israel had told Rajiv Gandhi that they will blow up the nukes in Pakistan. Rajiv Gandhi went and leaked the plans to the Pakis.. We should take Isreal help in :-
(i) Setting up a security infrastructure. Outsourcing is not a dirty word anymore so lets do it.. They can be the consultants with implementation powers. It can be made in a very safe fashion really without jeopardising India's position.

(2) We should take their help to take our Pakistan's nukes before waging a war with Pakistan

Max said...

I have to disagree with you on this one. Why must we give a seperate island to the Israelis for them to stay? I don't understand the logic behind that idea. What will it achieve? Will it make Iran and gang change their stand on Israel? Will it make Israel stronger in any way? No it won’t. If Israelis like India, they can stay in any city they like. Afterall as you said Jews have never been persecuted by the Indians although they’ve been on the Indian subcontinent for over 2,500 years!

The land of Israel belongs to the Jews. It's their homeland. If their homeland is under threat, asking them to move over to our backyard is not the answer. We have to help them defend their home and fight the infidels. It is because the Israelis are surrounded by enemies they have become strong. If Israel gets conquered by the Muslims, the few remaining Jews will not have a place on earth. Why, they may not even exist for they’ll be exterminated –once again. Israel today is the Jew’s last chance. Israel is their last stand. Something they cannot afford to lose. Keeping this in mind, they have grown into steel fisted people.

If Israelis look at India as their other home, the significance of the struggle for Israel becomes irrelevant. The Jews from all four corners fought for Israel because of the painful lesson they learnt through history. Their homeland was annexed, they were butchered in almost every place they went to. Now after centuries, they have regained their rights and sanity.

India and Israel have common enemies. Our missions are the same. What better friends can there be?

Israel’s key limitation is land scarcity. Something India can help overcome. Land not for settlement of course, but for strategic achievements. India can help by providing airspace / ground for Israel to train its forces and an island for an Israeli airbase. That would be a key deterrent for countries challenging its sovereignty. Giving an Island is not an issue for India. We have over 500 inhabited islands in the Andaman/Nicobar territory. There are several other inhabited islands around Lakshadweep territory, a more strategic location. These in addition to the others around that vicinity i.e. off Kerala’s / Karnataka’s coast.

India should also give Israel access to its satellite launch technology, given that it’s not feasible to launch satellites from Israel as most of the territory surrounding Israel is hostile. The only way, which is by launching in the direction of the Mediterranean Sea significantly reduces that launch vehicle’s capability because it will have to fly against the earth’s rotation.

India in return should expect access to technology for radars, missiles and spy satellites from Israel. In return for an Island air base, India should expect a piece of land along Israel’s coast on the Mediterranean Sea to be an Indian naval base. This will help facilitate India’s plan to become a naval power.

Max said...

@Avid historian,

Not quite, It was Indira Gandhi who Israel approached in 1983/84 to launch the operation of bombing Kahuta, to which she agreed and signed on to allow Israel to use the Jamnagar airbase for the strike with refuling provisions.

The CIA learnt of these plans (most likely through Israel) and warned Zia Ul-Haq of it. The US State Department also warned India and Israel that they would respond to any strike on Pakistan.

Both countries dropped the plans.

So its not India to blame.

Anonymous said...

Shalom indian friends. yes, we should exchange an island in india for a land along the med sea. one of indias future ATV subs parked in that facility would be a great addition for israel's nuclear deterant. no country would dare attack that facility of which, attacking it means attacking india. no country in the right sense wanting to attack israel would want to deal with india. the outcome of a war against israel and india would be too catastrophic for any country.

Anonymous said...

I don't agree either.. we need to change our mentality towards asking for help..

We need to be independent, united..


Jews are strongest community I can locate so far in whole world..

Whole US economy is dependent on them either it may be NY wall street or Chicago Mercantile exchange..

Intelligence of Israel is also no.1 Mossad they even told american govt before 911..

so certainly we can learn from them but need not to be dependent on them..

Israelis vowed that they kill 10 for their 1 and they proven it since ages.. they dont even go to america neither US bother them even not UN because of their influence rather Jews in US and that is reason for Al-qaeda selected WTC I guess.. not other buildings.. in other parts.. and upcoming community is Indians and since pakistan is jealous of everything india have they try to bother everytime

this is time to be independent united and act .. I really pity our uneducated and corrupted politicians as they are direction less .. we youth need to come forward and set up an example like jews did.. I see their prayer meetings and culture to help.. compare to our indians who always busy in their regional stuff. Anyways good blog and very informative as well.. I forwarded to few friends

Anonymous said...

max, we have 550 non setteled islands in andaman n nicobar alone. many hundred more around the west coasts of india. a typo perhaps

Anonymous said...

inhabited means got habitants. the 500 u meant were vacant islands. and its actually 550 vacant ones in andaman alone!


@MAX - I did not mean settle the entire Israeli population to the islands - stated that only 50,000 of them to be transferred. That is not a huge number, though far greater than the original population of Diego Garcia which the British killed and made way for a US base. You know, things have happened on "islands" - we just do not want to kill anyone but to use the hundreds of "uninhabited islands" to some use. Indian intelligence may use a few for its own purpose but a vast majority will still be uninhabitable.

However Max, your contention on Israel to continue et al are appreciated and I completely agree.

@AVID HISTORIAN - It was PC Alexander (or his staff) that tipped off the Americans the first time (Indira Gandhi as PM). However, I am sure, Rajiv Gandhi could not have tipped off the US - though I do not have definite answer to that one.

Anonymous said...

Rajiv Gandhi had tipped off the Pakis directly and not the US

Anonymous said...

Avid Historian

I know of the incident that led to the cancellation of the airstrike during Indira Gandhi's time. During Rajiv's time there was no such US warning or interference. However he on his own volition stopped the airstrikes. That is all I wanted to point out.


@ANON - Why would Rajiv tip off the Pakistanis? I mean he was the leader and if he did not want to bomb Pakistan, he would have stood down from an impending attack. What is the logic of "tipping off" Pakistan?



India in return should expect access to technology for radars, missiles and spy satellites from Israel. In return for an Island air base, India should expect a piece of land along Israel’s coast on the Mediterranean Sea to be an Indian naval base. This will help facilitate India’s plan to become a naval power.

Shalom indian friends. yes, we should exchange an island in india for a land along the med sea. one of indias future ATV subs parked in that facility would be a great addition for israel's nuclear deterant. no country would dare attack that facility of which, attacking it means attacking india. no country in the right sense wanting to attack israel would want to deal with india. the outcome of a war against israel and india would be too catastrophic for any country.

Anonymous said...

Bengal Tiger

The info you have/you've accquired is mind blowing.

How is it that anyone in intelligence has not yet picked up these stuff!!

I agree with the blocking water strategy.

But, Do you think Indian Government will take any action?

BTW, Since the Israelis were killed, One thing is for sure, Their death will be avenged!
What is your take on it?



@CLEMENZA - Indian intelligence, I would assume, have far better inputs that I can hope to have. However, it seems, India lacks what it does with the intelligence. For example: RAW gave he exact location of the LeT ship on high seas at: 24.16.36N and 67.02.04E - 60 kms from Karachi. The RAW dispatch stated : LeT ship at the above co-ords was trying to infiltrate through sea. This was received on Nov 19th.

What did INDIA do with such a precise information? NOTHING. Hence, we have hi-tech devices, great people at data collection but near ZERO ground level tactics, even between intelligence agencies.

Could this have been averted? Even without American intelligence - you bet.

Anonymous said...

Long live Israel the Promised Land in the Bible whatever the muslim nations do nothing will happen to Israel as its the promised Land and all muslims will go to hell.

Max said...

Yes, I meant over 500 vacant islands i.e. with no habitants. Sorry for the typo.


Well, the world today is a different place. We don't need to settle people on those islands to defend it. All we need are strong armed forces. A powerful naval base and an air base parked on one of the islands would be more than enough for the task of defending it.

And even if a time arises where we have to settle people on those vacant islands, do we have to look beyond our shores for people?

About the exchange of land I proposed between Israel and India, we have to move carefully with it so that we don't lose out on ties with Afghanistan, UAE and Saudi, and more importantly Iran. Afghanistan is an easy shell to crack. Even Saudi / UAE isn't a big hurdle as they are used to such things; their biggest ally (USA) is afterall Israel's biggest ally. Saudi and UAE are our backbone for oil supply. We need to maintain ties with them.

Iran would be a tough nut to crack. We need to tackle them carefully, and although we build a base in Israel, we have to be in Iran's good books, perhaps by sharing with them some sort of missile / warhead technology / launch vehicle / nuclear technology they need, but don't have. This way we can ensure their dependance on us, and we can pursue our own goals in Israel without fearing an Iranian backdrop. Remember, Chabahar is already progressing. Let that be operational first before making further steps to cement relations with Israel. Chabahar is important to counter Gwadar. At this moment, we have to prioritise on Iran-centric ties as "a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush". Chahabar is a reality, while a naval base in Israel is only a suggestion by me :). Why Iran and Afghanistan are important to us? Because they are to be our tools to counter and break Pakistan.

Anonymous said...

"Why would Rajiv tip off the Pakistanis? I mean he was the leader and if he did not want to bomb Pakistan, he would have stood down from an impending attack. What is the logic of "tipping off" Pakistan?"

d only asshole who did such a henoious betrayal is mororji desai. his urine threapy sure didnt do much good to his brain

Anonymous said...

The attack to take out Pakistan's nuclear installation during Rajiv's tenure was planned by Israel. Not by India. Israel approached Rajiv with the plan, which required India to provide a base. Rajiv then threw water on the plans and also informed Pakistan about it. Why did Rajiv do this - was there a fear of American pressure or whether he himself genuinely believed that Pakistan was no longer a threat - well to this question I dont have any information. Within a year or two of Rajiv's idiocity, we see the Kashmir insurgence.

Anonymous said...


(1) Water Strategy - I dont think simply turning the tap on and off will deter Pakistan in any way whatsoever. I also do not believe that it will bring them to their knees. It can only be used as a first step measure and that is it. It can be used to signal intentions, nothing more really. There are good desalination plants available from GE and Saudi Arabia will be more than happy to pass on the bucks to install desalination plants across Pakistan.

(2) What we seriously need to do is engage Israel much more than what we have done in the past. Saudi and UAE are oil sellers and we will get those oil whether we increase cooperation witn Israel or not.

(3) Giving missiles to Iran will be shooting yourself in the foot 10times over. There is absolutely no need to try to be in Iran's good book. However Indians go get visa on arrival in Iran and a lot of Iranians do feel very close with India. Having closer ties with Israel will however not jeopardise the current relationship.

Look we need to tackle this Pakistan / Bangladesh angle first and in a more decisive way than what is being done now. Not giving Pakis work in Bollywood or turning off the water tap are not the kind of measures that are required to bring Pakistan to its knees.

Anonymous said...

Strange - not a single Muslim or Paki message in this particular post ......

Anonymous said...

Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with a nuclear bomb. And we have seen how dangerous that can be. The fact that it can pass on this technology to 53 other Muslim nations should be the biggest concern. Imagine 53 Pakistans. Our first and only prerogative should be to take out that bomb and all the facilities that support that bomb. And this cannot be done without Israeli help. Once the nuclear bomb goes, everything else just goes out of the window.


@ANON at 10:50 AM - I agree that giving Iran at this present juncture does us no good. And anyway they are getting fed by Russia. The tie-up with Israel should be all-weather friendship.

Bangladesh is a spoilt child and has huge issues but I feel we should solve the more difficult problem first - PAKISTAN and then deal with the lesser one - BANGLADESH instead of opting to do the easier one first.

But I still do feel. water is a good tool we have over Pakistan - spl the flooding option.

Max said...

@Anon, 10:50AM

1. Why won't it? Do you know the losses incurred on Pakistan when India stopped flow for a little while to fill Baglihar's resevoir?
Water desalination will not help Pakistan much. Perhaps it can be used to provide running water to households in cities like Karachi but certainly not to irrigate crops in vast lands in Punjab and Sindh. Do you know how much water is needed for a paddy farm? And even if Pakistan gets enough money and support from Saudi for these desalination plants, how long would Pakistan take to ready the infrastructure to distribute the water? Remember Pakistan's access to sea water is only along its western border, while it has to feed water to millions of people hundreds of miles from this area. In my estimate, creating a infrastructure as vast as you suggest would take no less than 10 years. In the mean time, what's Pakistan gonna do? Who's gonna supply them their essentials?

Leaving aside irrigation for crops, the 3 rivers accorded to Pakistan under the Indus water treaty (i.e. Chenab, Sutlej, Jhelum) are also used to generate power. Try to think which river feeds the Mangla Dam? If I got it right Pakistan has aroud 10 dams built on the 3 rivers India can control. They are the nerves of Pakistan.

Stopping these rivers WILL cripple them, without doubt.

2. Regarding Iran, if its not missiles, it has to be something else that will appease them. We have to form a strategic relationship with Iran and Afghanistan, because they will come in handy in countering Pakistan. Already Iran and Afghanistan are not on good terms with Pakistan. Iran is already granting us access to some of their gas fields and allowing us to build the Chabahar port to counter Gwadar. So we should maintain these good relations and harness the results it can bear later.

Anonymous said...

The other day I was telling some one if granting the US access to Chabahar is possible. At least allow some other ISAF forces to access the port there and that will bypass Pak territory fully. Give Iranians a lot of money for the transit facility.

However, it seems, the neo-con is only upping the ante on Iran and who knows if this is a 2-1 strike. More on that later ... do not wish to indulge in kiteflying.


@MAX - How realistic are the chances about CHabahar giving access to NATO troops for supplies as suggested by Anon above?


Anonymous said...

Hey BUA - Are you a journalist with Times of India. I just saw an article :

It talks about the unclaimed islands we are discussing here. Setting stage for handing a few over to Israel??


@Anon above - No I am not a journalist with TOI or with anyone. No one will "employ" me even if I tried. :)

Anonymous said...

Mates, we keep ignoring the Chinese retaliation, if we take action against Pakis. What if they let water into Bhramaputra?
Someone needs to contain Chinese by propoing up the cause of Tibet, Taiwan (Indian Naval base perhaps) and Muslims in China


Anonymous said...

Anon above,

China has as many Muslims as does India. Did you know of this fact?

Well, most of these Uighur Muslims live in Xingiang and hate the Han Chinese. On top of that China has full intelligence report that Pakistan and elements (euphemysm for terror groups) are giving training to these Uighur Muslims to fight for independence.

CHina was worried about the Mumbai attacks and sought details from Pakistan.

China would love to create mischief - but this time it will not be able to do much, such is the atrocity of Pakistan and the world intelligence community is near unanimous in ISI & LeT's role in the Mumbai blasts.

Anonymous said...

@ Max & BUA --- Brilliant analysis on desalination plants / water choking strategy. I was the one against your proposed water strategy but after going through your response, I am 100% with you guys on this one.

Chinese retaliation should also be kept in mind and these guys are big BASTARDS.

Iran is a dangerous friend as well as adversary and I strongly feel we should be away from them. Just maintain the god ties and that is it.

Jadev,India said...

The water-weapon option is same as a conventional strike. Bcoz, if we stop water downstream, they will attack with missiles and dam busters aimed at dams resulting in a conventional war. we should catch a thief with thief. We should use covert operations to
free baluchistan. baluchistan is today run by PMI,IB and ISI with checkposts from city to city. Its a great place for "our jehad". We could provide night vision,IEDS,advanced anti-tank and shoulder-launched SAMs to baluchi tribes to tip the balance in favour of them. We gotta put (Muslim)Kashmiris in their place.The Amarnath issue have exposed Muslims like never before. Assassinating Hurriyat leaders,PDP and NC will send the right message along with populating Hindus among them to tilt the demographics against them.
A frequently updated list of terrorists,enterprising pak army officers and criminal gang leaders should be made for targeted killings. The madrassas should be targeted for anonymous bombing campaigns to deter parents from sending their wards for brain-washing.Only mentally sound and mature Indian Muslims should be allowed to go to terror hot spots like Yemen,Saud,Dubai etc. Similar list of rich jehad financiers like expat Paki canadians/brits and Arabs must be killed "accident"ly. Secular Uniform Civil Code must be implemented to rescue ordinary muslims from grip of clerics and something must be done to check their population.I am not for Nazi type treatment of muslims but if muslims are breeding like pigs, they will implement sharia after they reach at least 25% of indian population.

Аренда недвижимости испания said...

It will not work in fact, that is exactly what I think. said...

Pretty effective data, thank you for this post.