Friday, December 26, 2008


As I have written in two earlier posts : THE GREAT GAME and THE ULTIMATE GAME - the US is playing the GREAT GAME to keep the wealth of the Central Asian Gas under its control.

Nothing and no one is allowed from distracting it from that goal.

I am sorry if it sounds repititous to some of the readers but I cannot emphaisize enough that USA can deal with the devil to get business deals in its favour - let us once again cast back to the point when Taliban was in control of Afghanistan:

The then US Assistant Secy of State for South Asian Affairs, ROBIN RAPHAEL went on to state – “The Taliban capture of Kabul is a POSITIVE STEP.”

Another senior US Diplomat stated : “The Taliban will probably develop like the Saudis did. There will be Aramco, pipelines, an Emir, no parliament and lots of shari’a law. We can live with that.

On December 4th 1997, the representatives of Taliban were invited guests at the Texas headquarters of UNOCAL to negotiate support for the pipeline.

Chevron even had a tanker named "Condoleeza Rice".

In Condi and the boys, Russel Baker states: "George Shultz, who was on the board of Chevron, introduced her to Chevron's chairman and CEO, who took her to lunch and, Shultz said, "inside of fifteen minutes concluded that she would make a terrific board member." She was a good choice. Chevron was engaged in a $10 billion oil-field development project with Kazakhstan, and Rice, who happened to know its president, traveled to Kazakhstan for Chevron in 1992. She turned thirty-eight years old that year. In the following year Chevron named a 129,000-ton supertanker the SS Condoleezza Rice."

Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted to sell US Nuclear Reactors to IRAN in 1976 - and now in 2008 they want to bomb "suspected" nuclear reactors.
The greed to give US Nuclear Reactors to Iran - a country flush in natural oil & gas will need a new defition for the word "greed".

Nothing has changed today - the greed for Central Asian Gas has only increased fuelled by the fast US descent into the vortex of economic doom which happens when empires are built on debt of citizens to fund future consumption and investment bankers who demand that avarice should have been their middle name.


Pakistan is a failed state, not in control of vast swathes of territories. Human bombs are available dime to a dozen to blow off any adversary for the right price.

As long as this was localised one could have swept them off - but these terror outfits have become very powerful and as I have said before, I will repeat it here:


Pakistan Army uses its planned "deserters" and even its current cadres to infiltrate terror groups like Laskhar e Taiba (LeT), Jaish e Mohammad (JeM), Lashkar e Jhangvi (LeJ) - the group responsible for the Marriott blasts and run by Omar Sheikh from his prison "cell", the "various" Taliban cells.

Let us look at just 4 incidents:

1. Taliban leader killed by British SAS troops in Hemland (Afghanistan) was a Pakistan officer (with military ID in his body)

2. Major General (r) Amir Faisal Alvi was shot dead along with his driver on the outskirts of the capital on November 19, 2008. Schofield says Alvi, who had commanded the elite Special Services Group, gave her a copy of a letter he had had sent to army chief General Ashfaq Kayani in which he named two generals whose conspiracy resulted in his premature retirement more than two years ago. The British journalist said Alvi gave her a copy of the letter four days before he was killed, and had asked her to publish it in the event of his death. She said Alvi expected to be killed, as he had not received any response to his letter.

Alvi believed he had been forced out of the army because he had become openly critical of deals between Pakistani generals and the Taliban.

3. On the eve of the last phase of polling in Jammu and Kashmir, police today said they had foiled a Jaish-e-Mohammed plan to carry out suicide attacks in Jammu city with the arrest of three persons, including a serving soldier of the Pakistan Army.Ghulam Farid is from 10 AK (Azad Kashmir) Regiment, Jammu and Kashmir police chief Kuldeep Khoda said, and the release gave the belt number as 4319184. Khoda said Farid had joined the army in 2001 and was “deputed” to work with Jaish in 2005.

4. NOV 2001: Taliban besieged in Kunduz by Norther Alliance force. But wait : Pakistan got US approval to airlift Pakistani soldiers embedded with the Taliban. Among those evacuated were : two officers, both of brigadier rank, were said to be part of 1,000-strong regular Pakistani army men trapped in Kunduz and were directing Taliban fighters in Kunduz and in Mazar-e-Sharif, the sources said.

By this time, there should be NO AMBIGUITY about Pakistan Army role in arming the terror units and the Taliban for its own covert / overt operations in foreign shores.

But wait a minute and look at two other incidents related to points 1 & 4 above:

On point 1 - Britain’s refusal to make the incident public led to a row with the Afghan president Hamid Karzai, who has long accused London of viewing Afghanistan through the eyes of Pakistani military intelligence, which is widely believed to have been helping the Taliban.


In the same article in The Sunday Times (UK) it states: "The Afghan claims of Pakistani involvement in Helmand were backed by a senior United Nations official who said he had been told by his superiors to keep quiet after Pakistan’s ambassador to the UN apparently threatened to stop contributing forces to peacekeeping missions. Pakistan is the UN’s biggest supplier of peacekeeping troops."

Pakistan blackmails the NATO/US that if India does not tone down the "rhetoric", it will move it soldiers from Afghan border to the Indian border. Pakistan blackmails India with the "nuclear threat"


On point 4 - USA gave Pakistan overflight rights to evacuate its soldiers trapped.

Hence : UK & US are not going to do anything to endanger their relations with the Pakistan Army. Even if Pakistan Army is guilty of the Mumbai terror - will the USA / UK / NATO come down hard on Pakistan Army?

The answer is an unequivocal NO.

If some of you are still on the fence, let me showcase this. The attacks on Twin towers - better known as 9/11 - showed complicity of Pakistan and ISI - at the highest levels. Curiously in the final 9/11 commission report the damaging references to Pakistan and ISI are missing.

WHY ? Did US get a chance to invade Afghanistan that gave it a base to be at the theatre of Central Asian gas hence a trade off was reached with Pakistan?

The US / UK / NATO all know the Talibalisation of Pakistan - yet US & UK keep an ambivalence about the issue. In fact from time to time, it asks India to show restraint when it did not take US an UN mandate to attack Iraq or Afghanistan.
By this time, we should get a clear idea on what US & UK are all about - and the reason it keeps shifting goal posts for India.

Taking some paragraphs from my previous post:

1. India planned to attack at terrorist camps surgically. With most of the camps emptied out, these strikes would have been only symbolic. The aggressive stance of Pranab Mukherjee and the submissive stance of Manmohan Singh is calibrated to fit the proverbial "bad cop good cop" game theorizing. Indian elections are due in 2009 and if the Congress party is not seen to do anything, then their election prospects will be "doomed". Notice, how AR Antulay keeps his job, just to pander to "vote bank politics"

2. India asked USA to get Pakistan's approval for the surgical strikes, so that Pakistan does not retaliate. It is precisely for this reason Adm. Mike Mullen went to Pakistan to ask Pakistan to lay low when India strikes at terrorist training camps of LeT and others in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) and near Lahore. It seems the civilian government gave its nod for "limited" Indian attacks in POK but not in mainland Pakistan, which includes areas near Lahore.

3. Mike Mullen "fails" (CONVENIENTLY) in this as COAS Kiyani made it clear that regardless of how the civilan government chooses to respond to the US request to allow Indian 'surgical strikes’, Pakistan Army will not accept any Indian intrusion. The scrambling of jets over Lahore and Islamabad was part of this and the armed forces are alert and ready to defend against any Indian action.

Kiyani is also said to have told US Michael Mullen that in event of any aggression from India, the US and NATO can ‘forget about’ using Pakistan territory to supply their forces in Afghanistan as all resources will be diverted to defending against India on the eastern border.
Mike Mullen tells India, he fails in his effort.

General Rtd. Aslam Baig has said that US General Mullen is pressing our authorities to allow India to hit certain targets, keeping silent and indifferent to the situation as they have been doing in case of US attacks, which he believes, will cool down India and diffuse tensions between the two countries.

I don’t think that conscientious Pakistani nation and brave armed forces of Pakistan will accept such a situation. This will be shameful and render Pakistan's submissiveness to India,” the retired General said.

He called upon the rulers to explain their position in this regard. He said that the US was after ridiculing the sovereignty of Pakistan only to please India and Mullen had come with a dangerous message.

4. A chastened Pranab Mukherjee lashes out at US & UK for NOT doing enough. (meaning US & UK not getting Pakistan's permission to get bombed in POK).

With elections looming around the corner, and USA not getting the go ahead from Pakistan authorizing Indian strikes on terror camps, what next? Pranab Mukherjee (India's Foreign Minister) is fast running out of options and his verbal threats are increasingly looking like posturing on empty.


While Pranab Mukherjee is flailing his arms about, Islamabad seems to have concluded that the US pressure had all but run its course. Actually, by gently holding out the threat to the US that the Afghan operations would grievously suffer unless Washington restrained Delhi from precipitating any tensions on the India-Pakistan border, Islamabad seems to have neatly pole-vaulted over Rice to appeal straight to the Pentagon, where there is abiding camaraderie towards the Pakistani generals. (NOTE: PENTAGON HAS ALWAYS HAD A SOFT CORNER FOR PAKISTANI GENERALS AND LIKES DEALING WITH THEM)

The Pakistani generals' calculation proved correct when the Pentagon made it abundantly clear to Delhi that it wouldn't allow the Pakistani generals to be "distracted" at this juncture.

Speaking from Camp Eggers in Afghanistan on December 20, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, laid down the ground rules for India. (WOW - LAYING DOWN THE GROUND RULES FOR INDIA - IMAGINE THAT!)

He said the overarching strategy for success in Afghanistan must be regional in focus and include not just Afghanistan, but also Pakistan and India. Continuing in this seemingly innocuous vein, Mullen explained that the three countries must "figure a way" to decrease tensions between them and the "regional strategy" here is aimed at addressing long-term problems that increase instability in the region.

Mullen then referred specifically to Kashmir as a problem where reduction of tensions "allowed the Pakistani leadership ... to focus on the west [border with Afghanistan]".

He expressed apprehension that the terror attack in Mumbai might "force the Pak leadership to lose interest in the west", apart from bringing India and Pakistan closer to a nuclear flashpoint. Curiously, Mullen gave credit to the Pakistani top brass for cooperation in the Afghan war, which "has had a positive impact" on the ground.


Significantly, amid all the fracas over the Mumbai attacks and despite repeated Indian calls to isolate Pakistan in the world community as the "epicenter" of terrorism, Washington is quietly putting together a new multi-billion dollar aid package for Pakistan, and CENTCOM is drawing up a new five-year plan committing $300 million assistance annually to the Pakistani military.

Kerry, while on a recent visit to Islamabad, made the commitment to speed up the "mid-life upgradation" of Pakistan's F-16 aircraft capable for delivering nuclear weapons. He said the US considered a "vibrant, strong, economically viable" Pakistan to be "vital for peace and stability in South Asia".

The last big dole that USA gave Pakistan was $11 billion to fight the war on terror and Pakistan used that to buy military hardware to fight India instead. Most of the military harware was sold by US and it was therefore complicit in this purchase. The idea was simple - bring some "parity" to Pakistan Army's arsenal to stop India getting advenurous.

USA still harbours deep suspicions about India's connections with Russia and Iran and it wants to keep India / Russia and China out of Central Asian Regions.


Kashmir elections and high voter turnout has given India the "moral right" to be strong on the Kashmir issue much to the chagrin of Pakistan and dare I add, even USA.

This is India's war, India's moment.

2009 is election year in India and Afghanistan and there is a new Obama administration coming into USA. More reasons to create muddle in this transition phase. India has to rise above the Great Game and realize that this is the right moment. Economic realities have given an opening that should be seized.

Any more dithering, and we will be the laughing stock of the entire world.

US loves dealing with strong people / personalities / nations - does not matter if they are dictators / killers as long as they help US. And US abhors weak kneed nations and people - hence INDIA will time and again will be shunted around if we show weakness as we are doing now and have in the past.

Remember Indira Gandhi and how we won the war inspite of the US bringing its naval aircraft carrier. We are sadly missing her today.

At the very least India should:

1. Turn off water from CHENAB (which is in Himachal and far from the reach of Pak Air force) into Pakistan. Why are we not using our water advantage over Pakistan?

2. Bring Kasav on TV to appeal to his parents, his friends and discuss about the terror camps. An appearance on TV will change a lot of dynamics within Pakistan.

US is not the enemy here but due to her obsession with "profits" it loses interest in the spillover effect it might have on the neighbouring countries where it deems its interest to be at. Unfortunately, US looks at terror through the lens of what affects it (hence Al Qaeda, Taliban are bad) and others that do not (Lashkar e Taiba etc).

If we sit in our post-colonial "biggest democacy" stupour and base the "so-called" success of Nuclear Deal authoured by the US and then expect that USA will come and help cleanse TERRORISTAN for INDIA - well, we should NOT AT ALL entertain such "childish" notions ANY LONGER.

We have lost PAKISTAN to TERRORISTAN. The faster we neutralize this menace OURSELVES, the lesser the pain we have to endure. Carry on the diplomatic offensive to tell the world the real story - but do not expect any help in return, other than verbal platitudes that mean nothing.

If not for us, our children deserve a better future and in a better world.


Anonymous said...


Loved this post. But Manmohan Singh is a CIA stooge. We are in a Christian conspiracy.

1. Sonia Gandhi, the real power centre is a Christian.

2. Defense Minster A.K.Anthony is a Christian

3. Our PM is a CIA stooge, hence married to Chiristain ideals.

Hence, America rules our policies.

Max said...


Jhelum originates in J&K. It's the Chenab that originates in Himachal and is granted exclusive usage to Pakistan under the Indus Water Treaty. Please fix that.



Sorry, last article wrote in a hurry. But glad that I did as I see that Indrani Bagchi has covered a bit of it (the US stand at least and Pak's weathering the storm bit) in Times of India today (27th Dec'08)

Anonymous said...


Excellent analysis.

However, I am a bit perplexed at your comments - "The USA is not the enemy here". I can understand the immediate enemy here is Paksitan.

If USA is not the enemy, then it certainly is not a friend - if one were to draw any conclusions from your article. Then what is USA to INDIA?

Anonymous said...

While you look for the elusive Maulana Masood Azhar - please read this poem of his - and enjoy.

Maulana Masood Azhar has written a glorious poem on "HINDU OCCUPIED KASHMIR" when he was in prison at "TEHARR JAIL" in INDIA.

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay, Hum tan man dhan warein Kashmir ki wade par, Har qatraah-e-Khoon qurban teri azadi par, Teri khak ka har zarra dil-o-jann say payara hay,

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay, Kashmir ki wade kay mazloom musalmanoo, Ay sabar kay kohh-saroo jazbat kay toofanoo, Kashmir ki wade nay phir tum ko pukara hay,

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay, Hum jail kay darwaazay ik zarrb say torren gy, Ab hind kay chayloon ko zinda nahe chooreen gy, Har shakhs kay hoontoon par takbeer ka naarah hay,

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay, Phir Quom-e-Muhammad(S.A.W) ko woh shooq-e-shahadat day, Taghouut-e-Zamana ko yeh jang ki da’awat day, Ya Rab teri Nusrat hi hum sab ka sahara hay,

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay, Phir Goonnj sunaei day Takbeer kay naaroon ki, Taqdeer badal jaey Wade kay chaannaroon ki, E’man ki kirnoon say pur noor nazara hay,

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay, Ghazni kay mujahid jab Kashmir may aa’en gy, Phir Bhaarte Fojjon ko meedaan say bhagaaen gy, Khud hind kahay gaa hann Kashmir tumhara hay,

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay, Hum Shooq-e-Shahadat ka toufan uthaein gy, Dehli kay qilaay par hum parcham lehraein gy, Kyun buzdil bharat nay hum ko lalkara hay,

Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir Hamara hay, Kashmir say Dehli tak yeh mulk hamara hay,

Anonymous said...

Look at you now - even the great Uncle Sam is not listening to you. Ha ha ha

Your slave mentality(of Arabs’,Goras’),histories of triumphs,your glories,all are to escape from the reality of this world which makes it difficult for you to live in harmony with even your neigbors around you.

You have no future because you are trying to get the answers from the past that is dead as you Chanakya.Not only will you be in conflict with others,but within yourself,because those Chanakyan winds blow no more blow on your back but right on your arrogant blind eyes.They would definitely destroy you cos your heart is hiding in darkness fear.

I love what Hameed Gul said few days ago”Wars are not fought with weapons,komein jhang larti hen”.We know your tremendous amount of conventional arsenals investments,even moon missions,but what use are they when you hide behind your own fear.We ruled you for 1000 years.You are afraid that we will take back what you have now.Is this not one of your fear?

The more you hang on to Kashmir,the more you invest in your nightmare,your self generated fear,I swear.When are you going to accept that this fear creates problems for you,hakikat tumhari asli dushman he?

And then you think you will bomb Pakistan - brothers - your politicians just do not have the guts! We pay them bribes too !!

Prasun K Sengupta said...

My dear folks, everytime I've asked any well-meaning Pakistani (be it an Embassy official or diplomat or even a commoner) to at least define his/or idea of Kashmir in geographic terms, I've always received the same question: "what do you mean?" Then I've had to explain them what exactly I meant. I've had to explain to them that the original UN resolution applies to Jammu & Kashmir, not just Kashmir. Secondly, this UN resolution is no longer applicable since the Northern Areas has been unilaterally annexed by Pakistan and this in turn automatically results in a territorial redrawing of the disputed territory's boundary--turning it into a dispute within a dispute. Making matters worse is the unilateral ceding of Kashmiri territory by Pakistan to China. Thirdly, and consequently, whenever someone from Pakistan refers to Kashmir in territorial terms, he or she is, perhaps, unknowingly referring only to the trunciated 'Azad Kashmir' plus the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir. I for one believe that post-1998 the ground realities underwent a tectonic shift as the Northern Areas, particularly the Lower Hunza Valley (where Pakistan's China-origin warheads are stored in hardened tunnels in a semi-assembled state and guarded 24/7 by a PLA mechanised brigade) became an indespensible component of Pakistan's nuclear deterrent posture. Therefore, if India were to call Pakistan's bluff and wholeheartedly call for implementation of UN resolutions on the 'undivided Jammu & Kashmir', I bet it will be Islamabad that will wink first as it will under no condition be willing to surrender the Northern Areas either to an interim UN authority or to anyone else (as per the terms of the original UN resolution). No wonder the Indian Air Force cares two hoots about undertaking punitive air strikes within Azaf Kashmir, and instead places a tremendous premium on gaining air supremacy over the Northern Areas, without which airmobile Brigade-level offensive ground campaigns will not be possible.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@12:10AM: Who needs Uncle Sam's support when we have the likes of Lt Gen (ret'd) Hamid Gul offering his services to destroy his own country!! In the mid-1990s there was a joke in which a Pakistani tells an Indian that the latter can have the whole of Pakistan provided he gives away J & K to the former! Today we have the likes of Lt Gen Gul gleefully declaring on TV that the gallant Mujahideen are beating the shit out of the Pakistan Army (to which Gul once belonged but today he has no regard for)! I'm pretty sure there are several more senior-level armed forces commanders within Pakistan who share Lt Gen's Gul's 'ehsanfaramosh' way of reasoning and who won't think twice before sacrificing Pakistan for the sake of any kind of gains in Afghanistan. I for one wish them the very best and success in all such future endeavours.

Anonymous said...

problem with paki and kashmiri muslim morons like above is they dont have a identity. they were forcibly converted to islam by the sword by fuckers like aurangzeb and qutb. those who didnt convert were beheaded on the spot. the brave ones (today's hindus / sikhs such as tegh bahadur and all the other hindus / sikhs) stood up to this and held hard to our religion, beliefs and tradition - not bowing to the sword to accept some moronic arab teachings by a pedophile and torturer called muhammad (its true - he married a 9 yr old girl called aisha and tortured many quraish people - i can provide hadith verses if anybody is of doubt). coming back, these muslims later (when brits came) were so left out in all fields. later independence a young, stupid, pork eating opportunist called ali jinah (wanting to rule somewhere by hook / crook) mislead the muslim morons to form a new country, which today we see in shit. so paki muslims are generally people who were forcibly converted to islam (hence threw their 5000 yr old developed culture for arab way of life like urdu/arabic writing, babaric religion, arabic names also). and thats why they always feel sore seeing hindus because they are now stuck in the mud (yes, islam is like quicksand - apostasy is prohibited). and b'coz they r never happy they are brooding day by day about kashmir; junagadh; (whatever they can)... but eventually they will fail.

hindus, knowing todays pakis are generally decendants of those who left everything of theirs and took up another culture fearing death (or possibly monetary rewards); it wont be too hard to conques them someday. all we gotta do si the same - point a sword and some money - they will lick your arse - forget their arab ancesters and become whatever you want (even animists)!

Anonymous said...

prasun sengupta: since you are familiar with paki fucked up representatives, i heard that whtever somebody asks about pakistan, the fuckers will always end up with india (although it isnt relevant to the subject in question). please share your view on this.

Anonymous said...

prasun sengupta: 3:07 & 3:15 - very good points noted. thumbs up

Anonymous said...

Masood Azhar the poet - well guys - once we lock him up again, I for one am going to give him reams of papers to pen his frustrations ....

ha ha ha

what a moron !!

Anonymous said...

Pakis are claiming victory over India - as India as not attacked after shooting off the mouth.

Take the fire back to Islamabad and not in Karachi ....


Anon you asked me : "If USA is not the enemy, then it certainly is not a friend - if one were to draw any conclusions from your article. Then what is USA to INDIA?"

My answer : USA only understand a couple of things:

1) How to retain superpower status - any which way
2) How to profit most from "deals".

India has to learn to play the second (which it is doing by buying maritime recon crafts, signing MOU with the US to boost its missile defense system, buying nuclear power plants etc). Once India starts placing huge orders, USA suddenly turns into a "friend" and its partial amnesia towards terror camps in Pakistan goes. It then pushes the right buttons in "Islamabad".

Point is why do we do this - it is because we do not have any leverage in the world stage - yet, and most importantly we do not even know our strength to use it wisely.

Hence, USA is certainly NO FRIEND.

USA, however, can be a good BUSINESS PARTNER - as it understand the word commerce.

USA - when people grow old they are pushed into old age homes - there is no concept of taking care of the old. To them this is "excess baggage". One cannot expect "love & mutual respect" from this nation. However, one can expect "hate & mutual respect" .

For India - US should be a reliable "trading partner" at best. (Even then, it is not, eg: should we go ahead with another blast in Pokhran or better over Pakistan .... ;)


Avid Historian? Missing your insights and comments.

Anonymous said...

I tell all of you that Coward Hindu Baniya will never attack Pakistan. I have closely watched Hindus I know they will not attack.

Let me share one incident with you. During the leadership of Gen. Zia-Ul-Haq Shaheed (Rehmatullah-e-Allih) Sardar Abdul Qayuum of Kashmir reached him and said that I fear if you continue infiltrating in Kashmir India may attack Pakistan. General Sahib (Rehmatullah-e-Allih) opened his drawer took a huge list of Indian Generals out of the drawer and gave it to Abdul Qayuum and said "INN MAY SAY KOI IS QABIL NAHI KAY PAKISTAN SY JANG LARR SAKAY".

As far as current so called democratic government is concerned I am sorry to say that these stupids and fools do not know how to react and how to drill Hindus.

We have faced similar situation in 2002 at the time of Indian Parliament attacks but our courageous government under pervaiz musharraf at that time sent them an ass drilling message that fucked badly the whole asshole Indian media.

If India fires just a single bullet towards Pakistan we should give them a good treat by using our nukes that can burn the whole fucking India in just 7 seconds.

Anonymous said...

anon above, i agree india has never attacked fucking muslim piss drinking pedophiles pakistan (except for siachen conflict). but in all 4 wars india trashed pakistan like fruitcake. in 47, we got the largest and best areas of kashmir. in 65 we succesfully thwarted the preliminary op. gibraltar and captured 700 km2 of paki soil. in 71, i dont need to elaborate any further. 90000 coward pigs and 1/5th ur country were whacked. in 99,. paki morons look at it as victory, but u tell me whats the definition of winning a war? winning a war is acheiving your objectives of that war. mushy's objectives was to 'hoist pak flag on srinagar' - but that never fructified. in fact both benazir and nawaz have called kargil the biggest military blunder of pak since 71. so face it - in all the wars we have fought, all we won (except 48, which is a stalemate, favouring us coz we captured all the watersources, the capital city and all the best and most fertile tracts, while pak got northern areas which is a cold desert devoid of almost any population).

Anonymous said...

you fuck, musharraf shat in his stupid pants during kargil that he telephones US for solution, and US said the only way for pakistan to maintain its sovereignity is to unilaterally withdraw - which was done without even a call for ceasefire!! this is unparalled in modern history. pulling back before ceasefire announcement is a sign of weakling HAHAHAHHAH... and later in 2002 that pants shitter musharraf, panic stricken by parakram openly tendered his apology and vowed to do anything to dismantle terror infrastructure in porkistan.

you can nuke, no problem, b'coz even the ~40 nuke weapons in your inventory (no thermonuke, all low yield) would not even be enough to take out west india alone... while our arsenal of over 120 would be more than enough to annihilate pakistan as a whole. and our 120 is soon gonna grow at a rapid pace since our domestic supply of nuke fuel will be dedicated towards building nuke weapons - as power generation reactors will be fed using imported fuel... already canada, russia and kazakhstan have pledged to supply us with nuke fuel... so get ready for the end of paki

Anonymous said...

I dont blame the Paki for his arrogance.

We have fuck all politicians - we need the Army in charge of India for 1 year to clear up the mess inside India as well as areas around us ...

Anonymous said...

Did you watch your Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee lose his holiness as he spoke? No more blaming Pakistan... There.

This is what we were talking about from day one. You guys have been blindfolded by your biased media. Like i said earlier in my comments, not once, but several times, you guys need to look for the evil within, theres a sleeping giant that is being awakened, against the recklessness, cruelty, brutality and all the joint atrocities being committed by Hindu extremists not only against the Muslims but against ALL minorities!

Quit crying like babies and blaming Pakistan for whatever goes wrong. Two words for all the Indians that fell prey to Indian Media's false/fictitious propaganda: GROW UP!


@MAX / A.H. / SM / JB / P Sengupta:

I am picking up some old news that are pretty intriguing, wondering if I should just provide link to these in a separate post of state them here.

I talked about the terrorists being trained by SSG commandos in Pakistan and how Michael Vickers is a very important man in the "terror" infrastructure and might even have a "distant" hand to Mumbai terror attacks - well I found 3 articles:

1. International Herald Tribune date Feb 7th, 2008 - US confirms it is training Pakistani special forces. And guess who is training whom? Vickers to Pakistani SSG. Is this coincidence, you guys think?

2. Google Dr Brobst, Ohio University, Great Game. There are wonderful flow charts for pre-partition and post partition India scenarios in great game

3. Strategic significance of the Hit on India by Lyndon H LaRouche. Amazing, since this story is for the 2000 hit in Mumbai but its a chilling read.

Ray Lightning said...

USA is a mature superpower which is adept in playing geopolitics. It makes deals with dictators in return for something juicy. With democracies, it has no choice but treat them with respect and get off the ground.

Pakistan has been a strong "ally" of USA so far, because their military dictators have been pawning something else for these favors : the country's sovereignity and foreign affairs. Pakistan has been important for US interests on two counts (1) Afghanistan where Soviet / Russian influence should be kept in check (2) Iran whose natural gas and oil reserves are necessary for energy-hungry Americans.

So what is Pakistan getting in return ? Its strategic interest is in the suppression of linguistic nationalism in all the regions. For a country born out of regressive religion-based identity, a progressive linguistic identity is very dangerous. So brutal means of suppression are employed in Pakthukhwa (Khudai-khidmatgars murdered), Bengal (Mujibur Rehman's followers murdered), Baluchistan (former chief minister Akbar Bugti murdered) and Sindh (GM Syed imprisoned for 30 years). Even the mre mention of more provincial autonomy will attract murders and targeted assassinations by the army : all members of the Bhutto family of Sindh are murdered for this very reason.

All these linguistic movements are secular and liberal in nature. To provide counterweight for these movements, the Pak Army has been courting hardline Islamists (the true patriots of the idea of Pakistan). Talebans are very much a creation of the Pak ISI to control Pashtun nationalism and to install a favorable regime in Kabul. Taleban are necessary to this very day, to the survival of the Pakistan idea. So the Pak army provides sustenance (overtly or covertly) to these troops. The US has to respect Pak army interests as a return of favor.

What can India do ?

India should support the people of Pakistan. It should argue vigorously for more provincial autonomy in Pakistan. It should argue that all aid to Pakistan should be made conditional to the Pak army being accountable to the Pak parliament. It should make the US understand that its strategic imperatives are aligned with Indian interests. (1) Afghanistan being a strategic ally of India, will be supportive of the USA and resistant to central Asia or Russian influence. (2) Iran can be courted more easily by increasing its influence on the west over the Shia region in Iraq, and by the pressure of Baluchi and Kurdi nationalism.

Baluchis, Sindhis and Pashtuns will all be favorable to the USA if they support and recognize their nationalistic aspirations. Increased federalism and democracy in Pakistan is in India's strategic interest.

Particularly, whenever Pakistan/USA mentions the Kashmiris, India should mention the Pashtuns and argue that these people deserve a level of autonomy and unity no less than the Kashmiri people.

Anonymous said...

@Ray Lightning:

Linguistic nationalism - excellent. True, but never saw it in that context before. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Madoff embodies American greed and Ponzi scheme embodies game theory at its best.

Behind the exterior of collaboration lies the scheming mind of monoplistic unfair practices - mostly laziness to compete.

It's US dollars are not backed by any reserves of gold - it is a bankrupt currency propped up by the financial world to stave off a pyramid like collapse.

It's a nation in debt to China, Japan, Russia, Germany. It only has its Ivy league marketing whiz kids and Wall Street "dream" weavers to save it from imminent collapse.

Hence the nervous speed at which to get hold of real assets - in this case - "GAS".

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@December 28, 2008 11:25AM: That's very true. If you were to read any interview given by high-ranking military (not civilian) officials to any reputed magazine, this will always come up. I myself have many times conducted such on-the-record interviews and despite my best efforts to even avoid mentioning the word INDIA, the officials always and inevitably mentioned the word in terms of comparing Pakistan's capabilities, and since early 2002 have always blamed the 'Christian-Hindu-Jewish axis' for all of Pakistan's woes. As I cannot find any rationale behind such illogic I will ascribe them to the 'never-ending policy of compulsive hostility against India for reasons best-known to Pakistan'.
As for the 'Jihadis' and 'Fidayeens' being trained by Pakistan's special operations forces, especially the SSG, that is 100% true and many a 'born-again' unemployed Pakistani youngster who succeeded in fleeing Pakistan and seeking employment abroad (especially in Southeast Asia) have told me time and time again that it was the SSG that imparted them with survival and sharpshooting skills training at Manshera and in the Swat Valley since the early 1990s.

Sontu said...


The Third and most important EVENT which is going to happen in Early 2009 and you missed to notice is “Alternate Supply Route for US and NATO forces opening via Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan by Mid Feb-2009 ”.

Importance of this development is..

1.Reducing dependency on Pakistan i.e. Karachi port and Container Route and Terminals inside Pakistan.

2.Reducing risks of interrupted supply, incase Pakistan do not cooperate on “War on Terror” due to it’s internal crisis/situation, Taliban attacks and most importantly due to any India-Pak conflict.

And hence Pak Army will not be able to blackmail US/NATO forces in Afghanistan in the future and will free US also from desisting India to not to take any action on Pak as now US needs India more than India need US, to counter China also mount a pressure on Taliban/Al Quaida and other terrorist networks (including ISI channels) i.e. pulverize Pak from Esat Afgan and West India front..together. Surely US will be more than Happy to see Indian resources (Indian Army, Air Force and Navy) engaged/working together with US and Other NATO Forces for a single cause i.e. “The NEW War on Terror”..operating inside Afghanistan and Pakistan simultaneously.

Now due to Financial Crisis in US …it has become very difficult for US and NATO also to manage the rising cost of the “WAR ON TERROR PROGRAM” and hence need new partners (like India), who will also join the fight for it’s own reason/concern (Pak sponsored Terrorist attacks/ Pak Interference in Kashmir).

The Time has come to... even OUT SOURCE,“The Fighting Process/Operation” to India :-)..which has cheap resources (comparatively cheaper resources than US and NATO soldiers .i.e. courtesy 6th PC correction for Armed Forces) to do the job for them.

I am seeing Gen Keyani has got a smell on this development and voicing very gentle words suddenly !!!


Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@December 29, 2008 12:38AM: Kindly allow me to reciprocate and 'share' one incident with you as well. This happened after early May 2002 when ALL the nuclear-capable ballistic missiles and their nuclear warheads held in storage in the Lower Hunza Valley has been hurriedly evacuated by China back to Chengdu. Within 2 weeks of that incident, the then Pakistani Ambassador to the UN Munir Akram had publicly stated that "Pakistan cannot be expected to defend itself against India with both hands tied back". Now, if Pakistan's armed forces were that formidable as you've claimed, why then was such a statement made in the public domain? What prevented Pakistan from clearly demonstrating the lethality of its conventional and nuclear deterrence postures? The answer is very simple: While China was supporting Pakistan diplomatically, it wasn't going to cross a certain line, which meant China would no longer extend any kind of material support to make Pakistan's nuclear deterrent seem credible or even in existence. Simplified further, it means unless China agrees, there is no such thing as an available Pakistani nuclear weapon. This was clearly conveyed to India by the Chinese via the US and it is for this very reason that the Indian Army decided to call Pakistan's bluff and redeployed all three of its Strike Corps in the Rajasthan Sector for a decisive and deep push into Sindh, thereby sending a strong and public signal to Pakistan that as far as India was concerned, there does not exist anything called Pakistan's nuclear deterrent. This situation exists till this day and the operational art behind Cold Start calls for pinning down the Pakistan Army within Punjab and southern Jammu while the knockout punch will be dealt further down south. The only reason the Pakistani media does not discuss all this in depth is because if they did so, then the truth about the non-existence of Pakistan's so-called 'independent' nuclear deterrent will finally emerge. And we all know what will be the consequences if Pakistan were to admit this to be the case.

Max said...


Do you have any idea or an estimate of the quantity and types of ballistic missiles are stored in the Hunza Valley? Are there anything more than M-11s?



I covered your point in my article "THE ULTIMATE GAME" where in CONCLUSIONS I write:

The US military is burning nearly 600000 gallons of fuel per day. More than 80% of this comes from Pakistan, through 700 or so road tankers that are vulnerable to all kinds of attacks on their long journey from facilities in Pakistan to American bases in Afghanistan. And ISI has increased the attacks to these NATO convoys through Taliban in their depots in Peshawar.

However, there are people who say that these attacks on NATO convoys are the work of Taliban who are carrying out orders from non-ISI masters (whatever that means).

The reserves in Afghanistan will suffice for only two weeks if the supply line is disrupted.

Aware of this, the Americans have been trying to create an alternate route through Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Even if the alternate route is opened fully, it is very long and inefficient and there are risks that Americans are not in a position to counter at present.

There is need to abandon the Pakistan route but there is nothing to replace it today.

What I was and still not aware of is the timeline you have mentioned - Feb 2009. Sounds highly optimistic as some of the roads for transporting such heavy duty containers do not exist in many places today and will take time beyond Feb 2009.



Thanks for bringing personal interview experiences here - it makes the "comment" section much more livelier.

I do not know if many of you have understood another important strategic dimension to all this - and this goes way back ...

UK will do its utmost to see that Indian borders do not touch Afghanistan. I was debating whether to write a small piece on this as the Pakistan "front" looks "warmer" now - not "hot".

Anonymous said...

only option is establish free baluchistan. why wouldnt uk want india border afghanistan? how does it affect them?


In the last post - I gave an article which was written by Dr Farrukh Saleem. Some of you had asked a few questions to him, which I sent to Dr Saleem and he answered back only a few - and that too "very off handish" - still I paste them here:

1.Sometime back a Pakistan Army regular was shot in Hemland province by the British but this was hushed up(later made it to papers). The Pak regular turned out to be a Taliban commander. (Gave Times online UK paper link which carried the story of British SAS troops killing this Pak Army Taliban commander.)
Farrukh Saleem replies: “conspiratorial hypothesis based on hearsay”.

2. Recently a Pakistan army deserter (so called) got caught as a regular member of Jaish e Mohammed.
Farrukh Saleem replies: “being in the army is a full-time profession….one cannot be in the army as well as a regular member of Jaish”

3. In Kunduz, when Al Qaeda and Taliban were cornered by the Northern Alliance, Pakistan Army had to fly in night planes to evacuate the Pakistani regular forces fighting with them.
Farrukh Saleem replies: “If the Northern Alliance govt falls would India be sending in planes to evacuate elements of its Corps of Engineers?”

4. Now Baitullah Mehsud is saying that he will unleash his suicide bombers to fight alongside regular Pakistan Army.
Farrukh Saleem replies: “Baitulllah must have his own list of priorities”

Anonymous said...

prasun k sengupta:-

The Tribune, Friday, May 31 2002
THE cat is out of the bag about Pakistan’s nuclear intentions. The Pakistan Ambassador to the UN, Mr Munir Akram, has declared before the international media that his country had never subscribed to a “no-first use” policy regarding nuclear weapons. What Pakistan did subscribe to was “no-first use of force.”

Launching a diplomatic offensive against India at the UN, Mr Akram, who presented his credentials to the UN Secretary-General, Mr Kofi Annan, on Tuesday, told reporters yesterday that the UN Charter prohibited the use of force and India should be committed to the non-use of force. India should not have a “licence” to kill with conventional weapons while Pakistan’s hands were tied regarding other means to defend itself, he said.

Mr Akram went on to say that Pakistan had to rely on the means it possessed to deter Indian “aggression”. It would not “neutralise” that deterrence by any doctrine of no-first use. Believing that both sides should commit themselves to the non-use of force, Pakistan had offered a non-aggression pact to India, which the latter had rejected. If India reserved the right to use conventional weapons, how could Pakistan — a weaker power — be expected to rule out all means of deterrence?

In reply to a question on what would constitute an act of aggression by India, Mr Akram said any action by India across the border, any aerial attack on Pakistani territory and its assets, and any action to economically strangle Pakistan would be viewed as such and would be responded to by Pakistan.


You misrepresented the "hands tied" statement. it clearly meant that as Pakistan lacks on conventional weapons, it cannot be forced to refrain from using nuclear weapons in case of an Indian offensive that threatens its sovereignity.

Where did it appear that China took any of Pakistan's weapons to Chengdu? which bollywood movie did it come from?

Anonymous said...

HOT News from NEW YORK TIMES today:

U.S. Plans Central Asian Supply Route to Afghanistan.

Interesting - as it seems Pakistan has decided to suspend NATO supplies through its territory as it is "trying" to weed out terrorists there - ha ha (Pressure tactics and nothing else)

Anonymous said...

Dr Farrukh Saleem is a more liberal minded paki compared to the normal others who will never accept their mistakes and weaknesses. I always viewed him with a good degree of respect which he well deserved. His answers to the questions you put forward however were dissapointing, to say the least.

Anonymous said...

Avid Historian

My viewpoints :

(1) Pakistan is sitting on a very important piece of geography and it knows that. China wants a friendly Pakistan so as to have access to Gwadar port from where they will move billions of dollars worth of their exports. Also secure energy routes, plus the chance to keep screwing India with Pakistan's never ending supply of empty headed Jihadis. USA wants a stable Pakistan to be able to secure a stable supply route for the Gas.

(2) Pakistan is bankrupt - militarily, socially and of course economically. So it is flirting with both US and China. This whore needs a strong male to protect it from the predator - India. But it is undeniable that Pakistan has decided with whom it will go to bed with : China.

(3) And this has put US on the defensive. Having suffered huge losses and reversals in Central Asia, it would not like Pakistan to embrace China completely.

Being a tiny nation with almost no resources, Pakistan is crooning itself to glory, based on one fact - its geographical position.

(4) From Pakistan's point of view, India has done a lot of injustice

(i) it took away all the prime areas of J & K in 1947.
(ii) it screwed Pakistan time and again and more importantly, India took away East Pakistan.

From US point of view, India is doing gross injustice by becoming an economic superpower.

From Chinese point of view, some asshole had told them that the future belongs to them. And throughout history except perhaps for brief periods, India was at the centre stage of world attention for all the right reasons. So the Chinese hated India for their past glory and also the future. In comes Pakistan and Bangladesh - ready to wage war with India.

One thing that we Indians aught to know is that we are the most hated nation and people on earth. Our religion survived the onslaught of Christianity and Islam - something which no other place / religion has achieved. Buddhist territories were by and large left out from religious invasions - it is something of a mystery to me. We are hated by one and all and looked down upon by everyone - barring a handful of people. Meaning that our rise will not be liked or tolerated by anyone but a handful few. The faster we realise it the better. Which means that we have to prove ourselves ten times more than others.

But India is rising. And there is nothing that either US or China can really do about it. We must take the onus of wiping out Pakistan ourselves - the only question mark here is what will be China's reaction - after all this is their route to the warm waters of Gwadar. Roping in the USSR at this stage is extremely important.

But at the end of it, we must realise that unless wehave a strong leader, even if we fight Pakistan and win a hundred times more, nothing will happen. We must get ready to fight a war but at the same time, we must never ever forgive the Pakistanis.

Further as an Indian, I must say, that we must stand proud and not cow down to others. Let us start behaving with others and stop taking shit from anyone. Lets change ourselves slowly.

In the meanwhile I hope we have a leader who will from one among us to rise and wipe out the Pakistan menace.

Anonymous said...

One correction to the second last paragraph above...

Further as an Indian, I must say, that we must stand proud and not cow down to others. Let us start behaving as one from a strong nation with others and stop taking shit from anyone. Lets change ourselves slowly. That does not mean we start shouting from rooftops but carry ourselves with pride.

Anonymous said...

This whore needs a strong male to protect it from the predator - India. But it is undeniable that Pakistan has decided with whom it will go to bed with : China.

well said buddy... actually this slut (porkistan) would go to bed with anybody to solve its concurent problem (US / Saudi / China... whoever the fuck). thats y you call it a whore.

"In the meanwhile I hope we have a leader who will from one among us to rise and wipe out the Pakistan menace."

i share that hope... really. i am seeing a vast number of indian netizens that are spewing with patriotism. what we need isnt bjp / whoever. we need new blood. one of the 1st states seeing this new line of leadership is J&K. And we need more for the whole of India. Those from the middle class. those with realisation. those with visin. jai hind.

Anonymous said...


The anger I have within is immense. Just for a few mistakes in our past, we are paying such a huge price. The biggest mistake was to leave our enemy untouched after defeating them. If ever one of us is in a position to do something to Pakistan, then do it. And then after it is on its knees, tear them apart. Rip them apart so they do not have the power to stand. Do not leave them like we have done hundreds of time in the past and repented for it.

No nation worth its weight in gold on earth has been immune to invasion - except US but even then the white man did invade USA and took it away from the Red Indians. The Muslim and other invasions of India were natural given the huge wealth that India had. Even England was invaded, even Germany was invaded. So let us not get too much bothered with that.

Anonymous said...

true... we should stand up to ensure history doesnt repeat itself for eternity.

Ray Lightning said...

To the anonymous historian :

India cannot and should not destroy Pakistan. None of the splinter countries that get formed after such a balkanization will be friendly with us.

It will be a mess to negotiate peace treaties with each of these countries, and surely all of them will be nuclear armed (size is no constraint for nuclear weapons : look at North Korea).

India has a better manner of conquering other countries than by mere weaponry, bombing or assaults. It is not our style.

Our manner of conquering other countries is via proselytization : the Buddhists invented this technique and conquered enormous empires ranging from the middle east to China to Indo China.

This is again, what we have to do at this moment in history.

Our religion is secularism and democracy. Our ambassadors are our culture and statesmen. We should subjugate the minds of every one and convert them to our way of life. Not a single bullet shot, not a single bomb dropped : and we will have won.

Anonymous said...

@RAY - You obviously have not been to the Tribal areas of Pakistan, amongst other hot spots.

Take your thought there and as you come face to face with these bearded fanatics whose minds have been closed - how would you propose to open them and then infect your ideas of passive submission.

These are good theories for books and for "submissive" populace - not for radialized ones which needs ethnically cleansed.

The faster we understand this, the better it is for the world. Beacuse these radicalized people are not only used by Islamists- they are used by pretty much anyone who can give them a job to do in the name of Allah (anyone and I mean anyone - including Jews under false flags...)

Anonymous said...

To Avid Historian:

Are our politicians at "important posts" as clued on as you are - if not its your job to send them your views - which are correct.

Please, you must.

Anonymous said...

ray, the method u propose worked well 3000 yrs ago when there were no predators out there to exterminate one another of different faiths. eversince the advent of to biggest burden on earth(aka muhammad), this has changed, and so our way has to change. your 'polythesing without blod dropping' is unapplicable for current day situations. we need to learn a lesson or two from our holy books, namely mahabaratha and ramayana - both of which potray (and advocate) fighting evil - where if the peaceful way fails, then force and bloodshed must be used.

Ray Lightning said...

to the anonymous commentors who have replied to me :

In fact, please do check out what's happening in the tribal areas (FATA). What's happening there is nothing short of genocide and targeted murders. The Taleban (by this I mean hard-core Islamists + Mullahs + foreign fighters like Arabs) are carefully murdering intelligentsia and secular politicians. The Pakistani army is not doing a thing (and are in fact, actively collaborating with the Taleban). This is the biggest scandal of South Asia. A major General (Faisal Alavi) has recently exposed the back-hand deals between the Taleban and the Pakistani army and he got murdered in broad daylight.

Pakistani army has been fighting a major war for the last 60 years non-stop. And it is not with India ! It is with their own Pakistanis : linguistic nationalists everywhere. We Indians wake up only when this terror spills into our territory, as what has happened in Bangladeshi genocide.

Hard-line Islamists are the only true patriots of the idea of Pakistan. The Pak army knows this, and thus funds them with money and intelligence to target secular politicians. Have you heard of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan (the strong friend and ally of Mahatma Gandhi) and his non-violent followers known as Khudai-khidmatgars ? These people were violently murdered and suppressed by the Islamists for several decades now. But still this movement is alive, under the name of the Awami National Party. This party has won all the seats of the parliament in NWFP in the last elections. Today, the Taleban are targeting these people and murdering them. A few links to understand the gravity of the situation :

As everybody knows, the Taleban are very much a creation of the Pak army. Now, they are putting a charade before the USA and gobbling up their dollars saying they are fighting the Taleban. But why would they ? They are the very backbone which is keeping Pakistan together.

We Indians should stop being Indo-centric and look at the problem of Pakistan as it is. The Pakistani danger can be diffused only from within Pakistan. It will be diffused by parties such as Awami National Party, Jamhori Watan Party (Baluchistan) Pakthunkhwa Milli Awami Party (PMAP) and Jeeyay Sindh Party (Sindh). All these parties argue for more provincial autonomy and less powers to the Punjabi dominated military. Even moderate politicians who asked for higher provincial autonomy got murdered : Benazir Bhutto and her dad Zulfiqar Bhutto (no saints themselves). Moderate politicians of the Hurriyat in Kashmir (Abdul Ghani Lone, Mirwaiz Maulvi Farooq) got assassinated.

We Indians should be dumb to the bone to not see all these connections. The only thing that can save Pakistan are liberal and secular parties based on linguistic nationalism. We should be providing them with all sorts of intelligence, money and international support in their fight against the hardline Islamists. This is the only way to win the war. This is what I have said by proselytization and by invoking our ancient past.

Anonymous said...

@ RAY : More coherent and focussed this time. These parties, you mentioned: Awami National Party, Jamhori Watan Party (Baluchistan) Pakthunkhwa Milli Awami Party (PMAP) and Jeeyay Sindh Party (Sindh)are not at all strong or united - except ANP. Add MQM and you forget splinter groups like Al-Zulfiqar. And BLA - Balochistan Liberation Army.

Now Pak Army and ISI are well aware of the dangers they pose and are openly killing them off under one pretext or the other (blasts, Taliban, political feud).

But a careful analysis will show clean targetted killings. So what?

We have PM like IK Gujral who actually closed down the covert wing of the RAW in Pakistan.

Do you not want to hold him for treason and shoot the bastard?

Ray Lightning said...

Shutting down our intelligence operations in Pakistan is the dumbest thing to do. Gujral is indeed culpable for the treason of reducing the reach of RAW.

But, rather than providing covert intelligence assistance (which is also needed), India should actively provide overt publicity and propaganda for these groups on the international stage.

So far, we have always been worried of our own backyards (kashmir and the north-east) to do this kind of political evangelism on provincial autonomy. But in my opinion, the time has come to encourage provincial autonomy even in India.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Max: The missiles are a mixture of M-9s, M-11s and M-18s, plus 12 warheads of which three were used up in May 1998.

Anonymous said...

Avid Historian

The spread of Buddhism was far from non-violent. Most of the established monastries have a bloody past - not only the creation but sustenance thereof. Most of the Buddhist monastries were like forts with clear view on all sides and extremely evolved architecture to fend off attacks from multiple directions. Ever heard of Tiger's Nest in Bhutan ? Legend has it that Rinpoche ( one of the buddhists ) sat there in hiding in tiger's nest to slay the demon ( read : pagan gods ) and decimated the pagan worshippers with his army. Only when the local people there embraced Buddhism did this massacre stop. Buddhists all over the world were extremly fierce fighters - even the monks were trained in the art of fighting. Islam was stopped at the gates of Bhutan.

Our 3000 yr history does not teach us to proselytize. It teaches us to fight. Had it taught us to proselytize, then there would have been no Mahabharata. And Rama would have proselytized while Ravana was having Sita in captivity. What Rama did in making a pact with Vibhishana was an act of war not an act of proselytization.

The fact that India did not succumb to Islam completely was because we had people like Rani Durgavati ( who with a force of 500 people had challenged the might of Emperor Akbar ), like Maharana Pratap, like countless other Hindus and Sikhs thereafter. Like Hari Singh Nalwa and also Rana Kumbha who never lost a war in his life.

But the fact that today we are facing problems from Pakistan and Bangladesh is because the father of the nation was a proselytizer. He helped the create the demons that we are facing.

The frustration is that we have forgotten our past. The reason as I had given - the British education system has whitewashed our minds into thinking that whatever is Western is superior to whatever is Indian. Sure somethings are. But not everything. Lord Mountbatten had said, after India gained independence, that Indians will remain our slave mentally for 200 more years because the English educational system has taken root wiping out our old system of education.

We have won nothing by proselytizing. If India got independence, it is simply due to the fact that the 2nd World War clearly showed that Britain's time was up - it was no longer a superpower and that the next superpowers would be US / Russia. Germany had Britain on its knees. If you read Hitler's biography - Mein Kampf, he has clearly stated that he will never relly attack the English because he thinks that the English are also the true Aryans blue eyes and all that. So it is no surprise that Hitler's regiment stopped at Dunkirk. Also India had become more of a burden rather than profit for the Brits for quite some time.

My friend - in war, you can make friendships. Make one ANP if you want. But remember - would be a Prithviraj Chauhan ? Prithvitraj had defeated Mahmud of Ghori seven times and let him go. Only to be defeated on the 8th time and captured and eyes gouged out like a common thief. We have repeated this mistake of letting thing be and letting off our enemies once we gained victory. Complete decimation of the enemy is what we should look for.

Nuclear weapon building is not an easy task. If we take out the Pakistani nukes, it will be impossible to rebuild them if we keep an active vigil. After all Kashmir insurgency and the Pakistani nukes seems to have come together at pretty much the same time in history.

Anonymous said...


In short we should have a post war strategy as well. This we always lacked and shows lack of long term vision. Whereas all nations have long term plan - is it not what BUA has amply proved ? Look at US, look at China, look at anybody. All have clear long term plans and one or two wins or losses are not important. We on the other hand are over eager to get back to our lives and expect one or two events to bring normalcy back. That my dear friends is not gonna happen.

To end it for this year :-

I wish all a very Happy New Year 2009 !

Anonymous said...

mr. ray, the break up of pak is for our good. trust me US will not allow 5 more pakistans to be nuke armed. also note that like prasun says china holds the tab to pakistans nuke. now china surely isnt gonna have a tab on 5 nuke states - which it doesnt even border. break up is d only way to de-nuke them and for us to reclaim northern areas and "ajk" - our inalienable territories.

Anonymous said...

avid historian, thanx for your insights.

Ray Lightning said...

@avid historian

All the strategic assistance (nuclear weapons and missiles included) that Pakistan receives from China is due to two factors (a) Pakistan is in nice cross-roads : its borders with Iran and Afghanistan, and its ports of Gwadar and Karachi (b) Pakistan helps to contain India.

Imagine that Pakistan is balkanized into Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and Pakthookhwa. What will be the change in Chinese strategic behavior : (a) to access the ports of Gwadar and Karachi, China has to be favorable towards Baluchistan and Sindh (b) to reach these ports, and also because of its potential to be a nuisance to India, China has to be favorable to Punjab. So, which regions would get to keep nuclear weapons : atleast Punjab and Sindh. Means we will remain in a situation equally screwed. Further, the task of disintegration of Pakistan is clearly against the strategic interests of both China and USA, making this task even harder.

You cannot decimate your enemy completely : short of carpet-bombing Pakistan with nuclear weapons, there is no way of achieving that. In fact, even if we kill all Pakistanis, there will be a huge antagonism within our own Muslim population and the pan-Islamic nations everywhere.

This is a futile exercise. So all of you should wake up quickly from your dreams of taking revenge on Islam or of decimating Pakistan.

When we have a serious problem (fundamentalist Islam), we should look at practical and the most easily achievable solutions.

You are right that Buddhism does have a martial component. But the proselytization has happened, by and large, through monks who spread to different countries and convinced their heads of state. India never raised a standing army for the spread of Buddhism into China or Japan, for example. If that can be achieved in ancient days of medieval justice and brutality, it can be achieved today as well !

Wish you all a happy 2009, may that be India's year.

Anonymous said...

@ Ray Lightning - Your viewpoints are that of a lazy person who has convinced himself that doing nothing is the best thing because moment you try to do something you will be screwed. Also extremely cowardish - something that has plagued India so far. If Israel can get away with whatever it is doing at present so can India. It takes a person with balls and we are all looking forward to that person not a wishy washy philosopher as you. You represent all that we did wrong by not taking the right steps - and acting as an all knowing philosopher who happens to fear all outcomes arising out of positive action. Who told you that Islamic nations stand as one. Who told you that China will have the power to arm 5 nations with nukes. If that is so, even today you will not be able to take out the nuke and suck Islamic dicks for ever. What are you talking ?

Anonymous said...

Yup. this Ray Lightning is another Morarji Desai or Inder Gujral. idiots like him have created this mess. but no more

Anonymous said...

This Ray Lightning is just another stupid person with half baked knowledge and thinks himself as something great. Just another joker in the pack that India needs no more. Pls. spare us this idiotic Ray

Anonymous said...

Defeatist idiot

Anonymous said...

@ Prasun - Any idea what is the Chinese strength in terms of Number of Soldiers, their Air forcr might and No. of Nukes visa a vis India ?

Max said...




If you feel we cannot decimate Pakistan because the backlash (from Muslims) would be too great, we have to move US style: Create / support a situation that leads to Pakistan's break up discreetly. Right now many suspect the US is already working towards that. We can surely offer our expertise as a catalyst for the process.

Ray Lightning said...

It is funny to hear that I am a coward from people who hide behind the "anonymous" tag. And it is funnier to hear that I am stupid and lazy, when the "anonymous" people are too ____ to present their counter arguments and participate in a meaningful debate.

What is Israel getting in return for all this macho mass-murders that it is doing in Palastene ? Do they have hopes of peace and stability in the near future ? Do they have any assurance that the terrorist attacks will stop ?

Look. The stability, peace and integrity of my motherland is a serious issue and means a lot to me. I prefer that this issue is not highjacked by some idiots who have some personal vendetta against Islam or whatever.

Ray Lightning said...


What you have said is more reasonable. And the best way of achieving such a target is to encourage linguistic nationalism in Pakistan (and tone down the rhetoric on Islam, because these secular nationalists also happen to be Muslims)

But the potential downside of this is that the tremors of seperatism that we initiate in the subcontinent will engulf India as well. There is no guarantee that India stands united sorrounded by a sea of nations formed on the basis of language. It is for this reason, that India should encourage a federal state in Pakistan. In fact, such a federal state will be more ready for a broader union with the Indian state, and for undoing the partition of our country : much increasing the strategic and geopolitical significance of India.


@AVID HISTORIAN : Your contextualizing historical facts to today's events is simply excellent. Even though we know, history repeats itself, we simply do not learn.

@MAX: Clear, sharp, focussed as always.

@PRASUN : Some of the numbers you give are simply amazing and one can question them (wonder why not one has yet). Eg 12 warheads, 3 used up.

@RAY : You are too much tied to linguistic nationalism. Any idea what happened in Diego Garcia? Any idea by South Americans speak Spanish (except Brazil which speaks Portugese) and any idea why Philippines is such an overwhelming Catholic country? There is a context and time in history when instant TV and mobiles were not present and one could pretty much do as one would want - exactly what is happening in today's FATA and in other forgotten remote corners of the world.

But in India when the world is watching, things have to be "manufactured" if we need to arrive at a desired result. And powerful people with a sense of destiny do just that.

Last point: One needs to keep a careful watch of what is happening in Assam. How Bangladeshi infiltrators have come and taken over the vast tracts of state and have driven the helpless locals into shelter homes where they get 2 kgs of rice and salt to eat per week. So these Hindus are in shelter, the original land owners, and the Bangladeshi migrants are the new landowners and we sit back and do nothing. It is estimated that in 30 yrs time, we will have a Chief Minister of Bangladeshi origin ruling Assam - such is the population statistics. Already a great many are MLAs and a couple are MPs too.

Now extrapolate the poplutation growth of Muslims within India and draw conclusions.

Assam is Battleground 1.

My question to Ray : The Assamese have a proud lingusitic history - how do you propose your "way forward" will work here?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

BUA: The numbers have been known since APRIL 1998 and have been discussed and detailed extensively in several seminars and conferences around the world, but the press in general does not tend to report such things as such figures are regarded as esoteric and not newsworthy. That's why ignorance breeds more ignorance. That's the reality. That's why the press does not ask why did Pakistan spend enormous resources acquiring ballistic missiles from North Korea when similar performance-based missiles came from China. Also not asked is why has Pakistan spent so much money on acquiring the know-how for producing highly enriched uranium when all its China-supplied nuclear warheads use plutonium cores. Simple, basic questions that have not yet been answered thus far.

Anonymous said...

Avid Historian

@ Ray Lightning - I have some questions for you and some issues to reflect on. I hope you to believe in one philosophy and which is - O ! Lord, give me the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to accept the things that I cannot.

Now what are the thing we must / can change and what are the things we must accept are the things that we should focus our debate on. Right ? Before getting into this I have one question.

What do you have to say to the New Year Gift given to us by extremists in Assam today in the form of 5 people dead, mutliple bomb blasts ? Dont you feel ashamed to be part of a nation which does not even have the guts to stand up and fight our enemies. And who exactly are our enemies.

On one hand it is USA and China but both can still be conquered by means of proselytization ( i hate this term ) / business partnerships. We have taken the nuclear deal, maybe we anyway need to buy weaponary from them and for China we can simply offer them access to Mumbai ports / Kolkata ports in lieu of Gwadar port. Such a simple solution such a complex problem. After all if India were to attack Pakistan, we have to ensure the masters of Pakistan still gets what they will get without the attack. That is active strategy on things we cannot change and that is the threat from these two superpowers are immense.

But what we must change is the Islamic equation. Can we not take that nuke out ? Definitely we can. Islam has seeds of conflict inbuilt into it, that either we wipe it out or we ourselves get wiped out.

Lets look at some issues here / some experiences :

Lessons of Israel vs. Islam

Israel has shown you can damn well do what you want with Islam and Muslims and get away with it. That everytime you attack a Muslim, you dont need to shiver in terror at the so called Islamic backlash. Can you deny this my firend ? It has shown that every time radical Muslims talk tough, you act tough with them. Because Muslims understand only one language and that is the one which emerges from a gun and right into their asses.

Can Israel hope to have peace with its Islamic neighbours - a question posed by Ray Lightning. My counter question : Which nation can hope to have peace with Islamic population living within and Islamic population beyond ? Give me example of one country pls. I guess the answer to this question is well documented by an apt article in this blog itself.

FACTS :- Qatar, a prominent, Islamic state and Jordan are all for peace with Israel. So much so that they do active business with Israel much to the chagrin of other Islamic countries. There was a huge Arab initiative last year for peace with Israel - which was rejected by the Israelis. Had Israel signed that treaty, it would have had limited peace for sure. Because all Arab states had signed on it. Including the Fatah and Hamas ( well KSA did its best to have some of the factions sign on it ).

So to sum it up :-

(A) Give me the wisdom to accept the things I cannot change -

Namely I cannot change the fact that US and China are something that India would be extremely hard put to take on militarily. But yes they must be taken on like a business issue. Give China access to warm water ports that India has. Lets do business with China - after all bilateral trade has already touched a cool 50 US Billion Dollar with them. Increase the stakes so high that China will veer towards India. Increase business with US.

What are the things we can change and MUST Change :-

The Islamic Bomb in Pakistan and the Islamic Population. Conversion is an extremely powerful tool. The population which had converted out of fear to Islam will reconvert back to Hindusim / Jainsim / Sikhism even Christianity etc. Anything but make them move ou of Islam. That is a more effective tactic.

But to do all this requires in depth strategm / guts and cunning. Also diplomacy. We have these skills. We need new blood to carry them out now.

Anonymous said...

agree with d other anonymous. ray is another morarji desai kinda guy with no balls. cowardly turd

Anonymous said...

I have muslim friends. Not that they are bad, some of the are very good, but I must agree with @A H. There is something inherent in that religion which makes it hungry as a predator to devour others

Anonymous said...


I also believe in one thing and that is : If India, Pakistan and Bangladesh were to come together, we would be the Numero Uno Superpower. It can be achieved by :-
(1) Forging extremely strong business links with US and China. Because these two nations ultimately understand this language

(2) Annexing Pakistan and Bangladesh in the name of fighting terror.

(3)Using extreme methods for converting the Islamic population back to Hindusim/ Sikhism / Jainism --> Basically any religionother than Islam

(4) Keep a straight face like George Bush during the entire tenure and say - We are not against Islam. We are only against terrorists.

If China and US is on your side and if Russia can be kep mum, who the hell will challenge the above. Mind you I am personally not much against Muslims except from the subcontinent and Saudi Arabia. The Iranians and UAE's and Omani Muslims or even Jordanian Muslims are a really good lot of people if you ask me.

Anonymous said...

Agree with Anon above 100%.

For one country to prosper the other has to be annihilated.

This is no jingosim - but based on cool facts and historical data.

Anonymous said...

"Look. The stability, peace and integrity of my motherland is a serious issue and means a lot to me. I prefer that this issue is not highjacked by some idiots who have some personal vendetta against Islam or whatever."

u missed out da point. it is also my dream for india towards stability, peace, integrity... whatever. as such i will have a personal vendetta against anything and everything standing in the way

and i (as well as all my friends here on this blog) have a personal vendetta against 2 elements which are all out against our dream: they are Islam and Pakistan (and also Bangladesh).

I am NOT against the normal milk wala or tailor bhai or sania mirza or even vice prez muslims of india. i am only against MUSLIMS (and anybody) WHO DREAM OF HARMING INDIA / INDIANS. The universal muslim population against India is Pakistan that has to be annihilated and i will stand with anybody initiaing this action.




[btw i second avid historian buddy's question: which majority % muslim country peace, stability and prosparity?]

Anonymous said...

"It is funny to hear that I am a coward from people who hide behind the "anonymous" tag."

look up does having a blogger account means that one is a coward? Is it so difficult for me to open a blogger account with some email address and post the same thing? so then will i qualify to be a non-coward?

Anonymous said...

The security of our motherland has long been hijacked by cowardly people like Ray. High time it is brought into the right hands.

Anonymous said...

"What is Israel getting in return for all this macho mass-murders that it is doing in Palastene ?

What does palestinians get by shooting qassam rockets into israel? did israel start it? the problem is news only goes bang when israel does something. the use of qassam rockets on civilian population is cold blooded murder. and so israeli govt, as a responsible govt is taking down the rogue hamas govt. hopefully with the strong indo israeli ties israel will teach idiot indian leaders to teach asshole pak a lesson.

israel has created an environment that 200 million arabs in this world dont have to bloody balls to even lift a finger against them. Their neighbours 50x bigger dont have the balls for anything.

"Do they have hopes of peace and stability in the near future ?"

analogy is simple. if israel is not in peace, then the entire arab region wont be in peace.

"Do they have any assurance that the terrorist attacks will stop ?"

they are doing what they can to make that assurancew (like blasting hamas, creating iron-dome anti rocket system) instead of sitting and pondering about the future.

Anonymous said...

"But the potential downside of this is that the tremors of seperatism that we initiate in the subcontinent will engulf India as well."

violent sepratism in india has its roots in pakistan. period. elements like ULFA etc all all ISI outfits. we have other states with proud linguistics who have never showed any resentment at current day India. all states have their autonomy which is hardly infringed except for national security. all indians from all states are proud indians. i know indians from bengal, punjab, tamilnadu, kerala, andhra, sikkim, meghlaya (you name it). they all are INDIAN first although all have different language, culture and even skin color.

we need to use islamism as a tool to destroy pakistan. a tool it invented.

jai hind.

Anonymous said...

avid historian buddy, before annexing, they need to be week. so our job now is to bring them to their knees. then absorb them into india and revive our culture in the west and east - lost b'coz of our mistakes in the past and the rogue religion of islam

Anonymous said...


(1) You dont need Muslims as a majority of population to start creating trouble. You just need 4 to 5% of them to start fomenting trouble majorly. Pls. read the article by BUA on this - Why Islam cannot integrate in Host Nations.

(2) Your avergae Muslim doodhwala is quite a decent God fearing guy. But there is something inherently wrong with this religion. So I am not saying we decimate Muslims. I say we convert them. This however can be achieved once we have Pakistan and Bangladesh in our yoke.

(3) To do that we have to neutralise US and China first. They only understand one language - business. So make business easy for them, remove the hurdles that they face or present them with a plan. US willlove to drop the Islamic Pakistan on our lap if we can take care of it.

Anonymous said...


And if to take the Muslims to coversion point, we have to decimate a few million of them mercilessly, so be it. We have no choice.

Anonymous said...

To Anon at January 1, 2009 10:04 AM

You see both Pakistan and Bangladesh are already on their knees and bleeding badly. They however have 2 props which is US and China. We need to remove those props - and India has the business muscle and also the geography to do that. We just need a strong leader whom people believe in to dough straight talking with both US and China.

Once these two are out of line of trouble, we have enough evidence of trouble making by Pakistan and Bangladesh to launch punitive strikes. Next wave which goes in are the Conversion Camps. Same Conversion camps come up in India. Mass conversion or mass Destruction. Let the world cry foul - we dont care.

After this bloodshed can we hope for peace. Otherwise let us hang our head in shame and die every day.

Anonymous said...

To A.H. - U r right abt that part. And the world can cry foul. When strong nations invade, they do not take UN approvals these days. And UN is a toothless body - just watch it flounder as Israel (rightfully) is trying to decimate Hamas.

Muslims understand one thing - fear. If you shower them love - they think you are weak.

You will have to know the Muslims, to understand what I am saying here.

Anonymous said...

cheers avid buddy!

btw we no need to take on china and us first. these 2 dogs (pak n bangla) r already on their knees, we only need to give them a kick and they will KO. if china tries to be funny we can be funnier with taiwan. just give them a couple of agni 1 would be good enough. we got everything apart from leaders with balls.

Anonymous said...

sorry, not dogs. they are donkey and pig

Anonymous said...

here r some frens we can make use of:

Anonymous said...


To Anon above. Hitler made a mistake of opening 2 fronts too many. Lets forget taking on China and US immediately. For them business is paramount and it will take an asture business like approach for them to fall in line. Believe me if we open up our ports to the Chinese ( it will be pure business transaction ), they will fall in line. Why ? The dynamics are already in place. We already do 50 Billion US Dollar trade with China. US can also be easily coerced. But we need sharp guys to do this talking. Not very difficult. If China does not budge, US will. Other options will open up. Our immediate problem is defanging Pakistan and Bangladesh. If we can do that without opening other fronts, it will be e big blessing. After that, we can always play hookey with China but these are childish stuff. I mean look, we all want to get back to normal lives.

Anonymous said...

India's share of ballless leaders must be the highest in the world. Islam is a global pandemic and must be eradicated from Akhand Bharat.

Anonymous said...

lol bangladesh go no fangs.

u got to the point. we need a hitler. urgently.

Anonymous said...

Narender Modi then ? No one else comes close.

Anonymous said...

Think of this strategically...

FOr the first time since 15th century, Chinese ships have come to the Gulf of Aden. Of course these are 3 warships ostensibly to fight Somali terrorists - but in reality are they?

They are close to Pakistan and Indian coasts too.

What do you guys think?

Anonymous said...

above: chinese just wanna project power b'coz india's actions of repelling pirates several times earned worldwide reputation for india. the reason they are sending 3 ships is b'coz they aint got a feasible port for supplies in the indian ocean. So thats why a supply ships forms one of the 3.

hindus: killing evil is not a sin. stop being so guillable. Krshna did it. Rama did it. Shiva did it. Hanuman did it. they all killed evil demons (and many more lives together as a consequence of war e.g. Mahabaratha, Ramayana). Today you don't expect Ravana or Hiranyakshipu to come back (with 10 heads and arms) to make out whats a demon / who's evil.

Anything that threatens us, our existance and harbors evil thoughts is evil and is a demon. its our duty to destroy it. together many lives may be lost, but for peace why not a sacrifice.

Anonymous said...

Conversion is the most powerful tool to convert millions back from Islam to Hinduism / Jainism. Its how they did it - right ? Lets remember it.

Anonymous said...

Ha ha ... what a joke. You want to convert Muslims into Hindus. You cannot do that for one reason only - its not that people might not change their religion, but your government will not allow it.

Imagine Congress party not having a Muslim vote bank - after all, more Hindus might mean more BJP. But more Muslims surely does not mean more BJP.

Get it !! Your politicians will doom you - and they have done so. Even now, USA is playing games with you - the latest I heard now - USA allows Pakistan to try its criminals and not handling them over to India.

I mean, do you guys, really expect that USA will help you. Hence, I liked this article very much.

I am not a Muslim and not from Pakistan. Just so you know. :) All the best, though.


It seems now the US is saying that Pakistan is free to try its criminals in Pakistan - meaning they can just do anything as they please. In essence, India gets shortchanged again.

But hey, this article says: "So, You think the Americans will help - wake up".

Guess we are all wide awake now.

Max said...

Regarding the number of missiles / warheads China's keeping for Pakistan, I only asked Prasun for his estimate since he's quite well-versed in this field. So there's nothing for me to question him. All I wanted was an indication, which he gave. I have heard varying claims about there being anywhere between 5 and 15 nuclear warheads and Prasun's figure of 12 (-3) seems to be within that range.



Pakistan built its first functioning nuclear weapon when the late prime minister Benazir Bhutto was in power, says former US Air Force secretary Thomas Reed.

Mr Reed, a trained weapons designer, made this claim in a book — The Nuclear Express: A Political History of the Bomb and Its Proliferation — which he co-authored with Danny Stillman, a former director of the technical intelligence division at America’s Los Alamos National Laboratory.

In an interview to the US News and World Report, published on Friday, Mr Reed argues that China’s assistance to Pakistan was ‘shocking’ but not ‘short-sighted’ as it helped protect China’s interests in the region. Mr Reed does not explain whether Pakistan’s first functioning nuclear weapons was made during Ms Bhutto’s first or the second tenure.

“We believe that during Benazir Bhutto’s term in office, the People’s Republic of China tested Pakistan’s first bomb for her in 1990,” he says “There are numerous reasons why we believe this to be true, including the design of the weapon and information gathered from discussions with Chinese nuclear experts.”

Mr Reed claims that the Pakistanis were so quick to respond to the Indian nuclear tests in 1998 because the Chinese had already prepared them for a response.

“It only took them two weeks and three days,” he notes. “When the Soviet Union took the United States by surprise with a test in 1961, it took the US seventeen days to prepare and test, a device that had been on hand for years.”

According to Mr Reed, the Pakistani response makes it clear that the gadget tested in May 1998 was a carefully engineered device in which they had great confidence.

The Chinese assistance to Pakistan, says Mr Reed, “can be explained by a balance of power: India was China’s enemy and Pakistan was India’s enemy.”

Mr Reed claims that the Chinese did a massive training of Pakistani scientists, (just like the Russians had done for them) brought them to China for lectures, even gave them the design of the CHIC-4 device, which was a weapon that was easy to build a model for export.

“There is evidence that Dr. A. Q. Khan used Chinese designs in his nuclear designs,” he writes. “Notes from those lectures later turned up in Libya, for instance. And the Chinese did similar things for the Saudis, North Koreans, and the Algerians.”

The author also argues that sharing nuclear knowhow is not unique to China.

“The United States conducted nuclear tests in Nevada openly and with full disclosure in the 1990s on behalf of our UK allies. We speculate on Israeli access to the US test results … the South Africans also apparently worked with the Israelis on a nuclear test in the South Pacific in 1979.”

In the wake of the Suez crisis in 1956, the French and the Israelis initiated a joint nuclear weapons programme that resulted in a test in the Algerian desert. At that test in 1960, the two countries went nuclear with one shot, the author notes.

US experts say that China played a major role in the development of Pakistan’s nuclear infrastructure, especially when increasingly stringent export controls in western countries made it difficult for Pakistan to acquire materials and technology elsewhere.

According to a 2001 US Department of Defence report, China has supplied Pakistan with nuclear materials and expertise and has provided critical assistance in the construction of Pakistan’s nuclear facilities.

In the 1990s, China designed and supplied the heavy water Khushab reactor, which plays a key role in Pakistan’s production of plutonium. A subsidiary of the China National Nuclear Corporation also contributed to Pakistan’s efforts to expand its uranium enrichment capabilities by providing 5,000 custom made ring magnets, which are a key component of the bearings that facilitate the high-speed rotation of centrifuges.

According to Anthony Cordesman of the Centre for Strategic International Studies, Washington, China is also reported to have provided Pakistan with the design of one of its warheads, which is relatively sophisticated in design and lighter than the US and Soviet designed first generation warheads.

China also provided technical and material support in the completion of the Chashma nuclear power reactor and plutonium reprocessing facility, which was built in the mid-1990s. The project had been initiated as a cooperative programme with France, but Pakistan’s failure to sign the NPT and unwillingness to accept IAEA safeguards on its entire nuclear programme caused France to terminate assistance.

Anonymous said...

Bangladesh needs to be tackled immediately. That is a softer target and an attack on Bangladesh will put Pakistan on the defensive.

Anonymous said...

To Anon above:

You do not attack a "weaker" nation to teach "stronger" nations a lesson. In fact this might be seen as a weak kneed response on part of India to tackle the "bigger" problem.

The solution is to attack and "defeat" the "strongest" adversary so that the weaker nations do not even have the ability to raise their heads with evil eyes towards INDIA

Anonymous said...

Inscription of CHEVRON name and logo along with ship name CONDOLEEZA RICE on the oil tanker are both photoshop jobs, and very poor job indeed.


To Anon above:

Maybe you are right, I have no way of knowing these things. However, the fact is very much CORRECT.

In the book : CONDI & THE BOYS - Russel Baker wrote: "Shultz, who was on the board of Chevron, introduced her to Chevron's chairman and CEO, who took her to lunch and, Shultz said, "inside of fifteen minutes concluded that she would make a terrific board member." She was a good choice. Chevron was engaged in a $10 billion oil-field development project with Kazakhstan, and Rice, who happened to know its president, traveled to Kazakhstan for Chevron in 1992. She turned thirty-eight years old that year. In the following year Chevron named a 129,000-ton supertanker the SS Condoleezza Rice."

This can be read in the NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS AT :

partha said...

Well,I think America is a Responsible country and this time it was revolution in american politics.So people of america is believe in diversity.Being an responsible country US should look after whatever the aid has given to pakistan.It should be check by their concern departments and keep strong vigil on their funds.
Otherwise pakistan could misutilise the fund rather it could have been use against the terrorist or terror rganisation they could use it aginst India.It is a matter of worry for
India and I think Indian Military and the ministry as well has taken
the appropriate steps for this Issue.

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